Fairly new to MIDI, what is a sensible setup?

[prndrsnParticipant]

I am fairly new to MIDI, and I would like a recommendation on what routing and clock settings would make the most sense for my purposes.

Here’s my current setup:

* Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. Has one MIDI input, one output.
* Reason 8. Hardware instruments are represented by a virtual MIDI interface in the rack. Reason has 4 MIDI buses with, IIRC, 32 channels each. MIDI in on a Reason bus/channel is routed to a virtual interface and passed on to the hardware.
* Nektar Panorama P4 master keyboard. Has MIDI over USB and regular MIDI in/out/through.
* Novation Bass Station II. Has MIDI over USB and regular MIDI in/out
* BCR2000 with Zaquencer controlling Bass Station II and Reason software synths. Has MIDI in/out/through as you all know.

Now, I have everything set up in a way that works as far as everything receiving notes, but it’s likely not the most optimal configuration and clock is probably not configured properly. I still only have a rudimentary grasp on MIDI outside of getting signal A to point B.

So my question is; How should I set this up in a way that makes the most sense? Outside of optimal routing and clock settings in general, there are a few things in particular I would like to achieve:

* Have the Zaquencer respond to start/stop messages from the master keyboard/Reason.
* Have the Zaquencer BPM slaved to Reason BPM settings.
* If possible, maybe be able to automate some Zaquencer parameter settings from Reason.
* Have a Zaquencer track control automation parameters of Reason instruments/effects. On the Reason side, this is probably easiest achieved by routing a Zaquencer channel to a Reason combinator, which in turn uses appropriate modules to convert MIDI to cv and route those to wherever I want. That way input on one MIDI channel can be used to control parameters of anything in the Reason rack. I came up with this while writing this post so I haven’t tried it yet.
* Have the Bass Station II slaved to Reason BPM settings (I might just have to consult the manual for this).
* Be able to transpose the Zaquencer note patterns.
* Be able to connect future hardware synths that may not have MIDI over USB, keeping in mind that my audio interface only has one MIDI input/output.

[prndrsnParticipant]

Ooops, just realized this should have gone into the Music production subforum.

[alien_brainParticipant]

i would suggest a midi patch bay. this way you can avoid midi delays associated with daisy chain configurations. then all other routing issues become moot and theres plenty of room to plug other midi stuff in. you should however read all manuals.

[prndrsnParticipant]

Yeah, a MIDI patch bay is definitely something that’s been on my mind and would greatly simplify things. Not sure there’s room in my budget at the moment though. And of course, reading the manuals is something I have both done and will do more.

Some of these things mentioned is stuff I’ve already figured out how to do individually by reading the manuals, it’s tying it all together in the best way that I’m still a bit unsure about. I imagined it was best to describe what I would like to achieve in total though, even if I actually know how to do some of them, to make sure any general recommendations don’t conflict with something I want to be able to do.

One example of things I know how to do on their own is transposing Zaquencer patterns: I know how to do this if I have for example the Bass Station II MIDI out connected to the Zaquencer MIDI in, that is trivial — it’s not the basic functionality of it that I don’t know how to achieve. I am however less sure of how to connect everything in a way that I can do all of these things I mentioned above and not have any conflicts, MIDI loops, or suboptimal routing.

Another example: I could sequence the Bass Station II either by routing it through the virtual MIDI interface in Reason (I know how to do this), or directly from the Zaquencer MIDI out to BSII MIDI in (I know how to do this as well). Doing it through Reason is the easiest from a practical standpoint and makes the most sense in terms of consistency (as it would be identical to how the software synths are sequenced), but I don’t know if it does in terms of latency for example. If I do it directly, on the other hand, things start getting a bit more complicated, routing-wise.

Same with MIDI clock, it’s not necessarily how to set the MIDI clock settings I’m wondering about, more like what device (or Reason) makes the most sense to use as master. Things like that.

[alien_brainParticipant]

im afraid that without a midi merger, you wont be able to hook up everything.

[alien_brainParticipant]

USB out of controller into computer > reason, redirect to midi out of computer (with midi clock), to midi in on controller (unless you dont need to feed clock to the controller then go directly to zaquencer), midi thru on controller to midi in on zaquencer, midi out 1 of zaquencer to midi in on bass station, midi out 2 of zaquencer to midi in on computer. make sure midi merge on zaquencer is set to ‘off’.

reason is master here btw. output midi cc messages from reason to control pattern playback on zaquencer and transposition etc

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  alien_brain.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  alien_brain.

[alien_brainParticipant]

disregard my merger comment. i wish we could edit messages past 5 minutes here

[prndrsnParticipant]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll go pick up some more MIDI cables on Monday and let you know how it went and if I have any problems.

I just realized I have made a mistake though. The Panorama only has regular MIDI out, not in and through. I have only used MIDI over USB with it so far so I misremembered. If I’m reading your post right it shouldn’t matter though. I don’t think I need to feed clock to it, so I can just go straight to the Zaquencer. Regardless, shouldn’t the Panorama be able to receive clock over USB?

[alien_brainParticipant]

maybe but ive never heard of a controller than needed clock input

and one correction: you will be able to control transposition of tracks on zaquencer by forwarding midi note events from your controller through reason to zaquencer. you wont have direct control of the bass station from the piano roll of reason. this is why a midi patch bay is preferable to all these connection acrobatics

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  alien_brain.

[ChristianKeymaster]

Hi prndrsn,

figuring out this stuff is always a challenge, especially when your setup gets bigger and bigger. I have some friends getting headaches over this who are into electronic music for 10+ years. Finding the right workflow for jamming, and then also being able to record on the spot if something great comes up, using the sequencers/synths without the computer to not have to look at a screen, but then again with a computer for recording or adding some instruments etc etc. Lots of usecases!

It´s a bit hard for me to go into specifics as I don´t have experience with Reason and don´t know how it´s Midi routing capabilities work in detail.

That said, I think alien´s advice is excellent for the general setup and also for using a midi patchbay for more complex and flexible setups.

Let us know ow it works out for you!

i wish we could edit messages past 5 minutes here

I´ve just changed the Forum editing capabilities to two hours from the initial post.

[prndrsnParticipant]

I haven’t had the time to get more cables yet, but I’ve been experimenting with what I have (just two MIDI cables and the MIDI over USB functionality of the Panorama and Bass Station 2). I’m starting to think that it might be advantageous to rely more on the USB MIDI for the devices that support it. I’ve found that i can do a lot with the routing in Reason. A LOT.

Here is my current Setup

First, the physical connections:

Zaquencer MIDI in/out goes to the audio interface in/out.
Bass Station and Panorama are both connected to the computer via MIDI over USB.
Reason sends MIDI clock, so start/stop works.

Next, input to Reason:

Reason has 4 busses with 16 channels each. I only need to use one bus, but I use all four to organize things. These are all represented by a virtual rack device. In the dropdown menu for each channel I can pick the target device – any device or mix channel in the rack. I can in other words control four instruments for each Zaquencer track. Because of how CV routing between devices inside the Reason rack works, I could in reality control an unlimited number, but that belongs to a different thread.

Next, outputs from Reason:

In a combinator, a sort of container device that can hold other devices, I have created four External MIDI Instruments. These are virtual interfaces. They are assigned to MIDI out channel 1-4. If I select a device, the Panorama will send CC to the corresponding Zaquencer. This allows me to transpose notes. If I select the actual combinator, however, CC is sent to *all* Zaquencer channels, allowing me to transpose all patterns. Additionally, I can configure which devices in the combinator receive notes that go into the combinator in case I want this global transpose to only affect 2 or 3 Zaquencer channels for example. But this is not enough. Both the combinator device, and the MIDI devices it holds can receive virtual CV gate/note (which is translated to CC). What this means is that I can use any device in the Reason rack that has CV out (that is most of them) to send CC to Zaquencer, either globally or by individual channel. The most obvious example is to use the matrix pattern sequencer to transpose all or individual Zaquencer patterns. The possibilities are essentially endless and there are actually even further options I can use to send CC to Zaquencer but I can’t go into everything.

The drawback if I were to connect regular MIDI out from the Panorama to Zaquencer is that it would *always* receive notes from the master keyboard. Now it only does if the External MIDI Instrument representing the Zaquencer is selected in Reason. If I wanted to, I could easily

The Bass Station is connected in a similar way, being represented by an External Midi Instrument device. This is also inside a combinator. I have it set to MIDI channel 5. Just as how I can route MIDI in to normal Reason devices, I do to the BS2. Now, what I can also do is, in a few different ways, send CC through virtual CV to the BS2 to do modulation. I can have a matrix pattern sequencer (which can send note or uni/bipolar curve) or a device LFO or whatever, do, say, filter and resonance sweeps, or adjust any parameter I want, at the same time as Zaquencer is sending it notes. I can have eight different CV sources going into a combinator plus mod and pitch wheel, and they can modulate up to 10 parameters between them (so one source can modulate several parameters, but the total number of parameters for all sources combined are ten). The External Midi Instrument device also has one source/parameter, so that’s 11 total. The same goes for Zaquencer.

The net result of all this is that through really quite minimal routing (the Reason stuff probably sounds complicated for a non-Reason user but it’s quite straightforward) I have incredibly powerful and versatile modulation options both from and to Zaquencer. The possibilities for evolving patterns and automated variations are essentially endless. Even though I was aware of all this functionality on their own, it literally dawned on me while writing this just how powerful this setup is. Technically, I can do all of this with just what’s built into Reason, but using Zaquencer as the heart of it makes things a lot more fun, hands on and easier. I haven’t really noticed any latency either so far.

At some point, I will probably re-write this post and maybe take some screenshots and re-post it as a guide in the appropriate subforum.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: I can use the piano roll as well to control the BS2 or Zaquencer as I can draw notes for the External MIDI Instruments that represent them.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  prndrsn.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  prndrsn.

[alien_brainParticipant]

oh sorry i didnt understand that the bass station has usb

[ThomasParticipant]

It took me some time to figure out what you was writing, but h*ll yeah, that works in Reason 10 also

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by  Thomas.

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