Knobs replacement

[FlavioBParticipant]

Hi Chris,
Triplex is still waiting for the “test item” to be delivered. I’ll report back as soon as they get me some results/feedback.

I’m no electronics engineer or whatsoever, so I cannot answer your question about the rasterized encoders. Nevertheless: if they’re rasterized, who should care about?

F.

[ChristianKeymaster]

Hi Flavio,

please allow me to quote/translate you from the other forum, sequencer.de:

@ALL: TRIPLEX Service GmbH apparently found the right Push-Encoders. Encoder VE-EC12E24144 ENC;12mm;PUL:24;L:30mm;W/SW is the type number. The normal encoders without push function are Encoder VE-ED1214B/D24/L30/WO/V6

Thank you for your research work!!

Have you ordered from them already? Would be nice to have confirmation that these are the right ones and work fine…

[FlavioBParticipant]

Hi Chris,
thanks for “x-posting” for me I’d done it after I got them working… anyway, yes: I ordered a couple of those push-encoders (this time those are PUSH for real!). I’ll get them I think in 1 or 2 weeks, but not because of TRIPLEX’s “laziness” or whatsoever. I simply need to go over to Germany and pick them up at a friend’s house, because I live in Switzerland and it’d been too expensive to ship over here.
Rest assured that I’ll report back if they really fit our beloved BCRs! If I’d forget about it, please get back and ask me… I’m willing to help here for sure!

BR,
F.

[htkParticipant]

That part number (EC12E24144) gets only bad google results, maybe it is some very old Alps part or there is a error in it. 5 euros also seems like a very high price.

I looked into a this a bit more (see my post in the other “knob thread”). I guess if we want straight out working encoders (no modifications in firmware or the encoders) it will mean: 24 pulses per rotation, no detents.

Without a switch that is easy, but with a switch it is hard, all of Alps encoders of these features seem to come with detents only.

However from Bourns I think there is more hope:
See for example series PEC12R
http://www.bourns.com/data/global/pdfs/PEC12R.pdf

Now if we review for example this part number PEC12R-4025F-S0024 it is:
-correct mount
-no detents
-25mm (I seem to remember reading someone succesfully used 25mm as a length)
-with a switch
-24 pulses per revolution

It is available and in stock at Digikey
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=PEC12R-4025F-S0024&WT.z_header=search_go

and at Mouser
http://fi.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PEC12R-4025F-S0024/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugWATotNAPmOMR%2fnwPw9bVZzMSBNnmHrKsE71FL4rougNpeWLu3N1Cf

There are other Bourns series (for example pec11, pec11r look like high quality metal encoders) where encoders with these features might be available, but please do check everything yourself before ordering, including this example. I don’t want to suggest something that will not work and someone spends money for nothing!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by  htk. Reason: added Mouser link

[ChristianKeymaster]

Hi htk,
thank you too for your research work!
I´ve looked them over and they seem to be the correct ones, except for the shaft that is 25mm instead of 30mm. But this should not matter in practice.
I have just ordered 10 each of the PEC12R-4025F-S0024 and PEC12R-4025F-N0024 from RS online:
http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/mechanische-drehgeber/7899630
http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/mechanische-drehgeber/7899649

I´ll report back as well when they´re here if they fit and work nicely.
Great times! Between these and Flavios find of the original ones we should be set with replacement options for the BCR´s encoders, will know more soon.

By the way, in this thread the choice of the Bourns gets confirmed:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bc2000/conversations/topics/5004
It just wasn´t clear if the user actually tried them out himself, but no matter, I will try soon.

[FlavioBParticipant]

Good job guys!
Anyway – now you’re making me unsure that I bought the “wrong” ones?! Mine are 22mm shafts (or 20mm if I saw it correctly in the picture TRIPLEX sent to me).

What’s the correct length then?

F.

[ChristianKeymaster]

Hm, in the description of your encoder above it said L:30mm.
That´s how I figured that this is the right length?
The pictures are not always accurate, maybe that´s the issue?

[htkParticipant]

Hi Christian, great! I look forward to your report. That RS-online store looks good choice too.
I have some other repairs first in line, but it looks like BCR2000 will get a much appreaciated upgrade soon.

I think then I will have to stop being a cheapskate with my homemade overlay and order a proper one from you for Zaquencer hehe.

[FlavioBParticipant]

Hi Christian.
I reported 20mm because of this picture (got it from TRIPLEX):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3gnu8r7pumfccdn/SAM_0984.JPG?dl=0

BR,
Flavio.

[htkParticipant]

Hi Flavio,

those should be correct size. Length from mounting surface looks 30mm, which I believe is the correct measurement.

[FlavioBParticipant]

Hi htk – thanks for your reply.

F.

[ChristianKeymaster]

Hi Flavio,

it looks like you have ordered exactly the right encoders.
I have received the Bourns push encoders I ordered and they are not an exact match I´m afraid.
Here is a comparison between the Bourns and the original one that I´ve just desoldered:
https://flic.kr/p/zzTKeh (top: original; bottom: Bourns replacement)

You see that the shaft is shorter on the replacement one. This wouldn´t be a problem for regular encoders as the encoder is still sticking out nicely so that the cap can be firmly seated on it. The problem is with the push function, because the cap touches the plastic chassis first, before cleanly triggering the push. Sometimes it triggers the push (it´s right on the edge, when fully pressed) but it´s not a satisfactory solution.

I´ve tried disassembling the encoders to exchange shafts maybe, but no luck, they are not compatible: https://flic.kr/p/zB7arG
It´s not so visible in the pic, but the base of the original shaft is just a little thicker so it doesn´t fit with the Bourns.

I´ve soldered it into the BCR for testing regardless.

Other than the above, the action feels nice on the new encoder, very spiffy, more responsive but not necesesarily faster than the originals. It has very little physical inertia and it that regard it feels more like the encoders of my BCR from 2004. The original encoder that I exchanged had a problem (compared to the other original ones it moved very unreliably, and you had to turn it really slow to make it react), and the Bourns encoder completely got rid of that problem.

I think if one were to find the Bourns with the 30mm shaft (they weren´t available on RRS online, where I ordered) then it might work nicely with the push function too. What´s really weird is that the original encoder looks like it has a shaft length of 25mm. Even though I ordered the 25mm shaft length from Bourns (it´s the correct part according to the individual bags that they are packed with), it obviously only has 20mm shaft length (see pic link above).

[FlavioBParticipant]

Hi Christian,
sad to know that yours are not the right ones.
Mine (from TRIPLEX) I will get in the next weeks, as I have to go over to Germany and visit my friend (or he’ll be handing them out to me when in Switzerland, don’t know yet).

I’ll report back as soon as I got them!

BR,
F.

[ChristianKeymaster]

P.S. the PEC12R-4030F-S0024 seems to be available on Mouser, but it´s 20 Euro for shipping to Germany, so I´m not gonna order these just yet. If anyone else is trying these, I would be very happy to hear about your experience!

[ChristianKeymaster]

Cool, Flavio, thanks already!

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